Bugs and other weird stuff in Triplane Turmoil II

Prattle and quarrel about the fictional WW1 arcade air-battle game
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Postby Joppe » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:09 am

For some reason the game keeps restarting my pc. Everytime I go play it takes few mins and then just restarts the pc. Rather annoying. Windows said that I should download the latest drivers. I did that but it still keeps restarting . Is there any way to fix this problem?
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Postby JJ45 » Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:35 pm

"Ohjelma on suorittanut laittoman toiminnon, ja se lopetetaan."

...is the error that I get whenver I start Triplane 2 or go to any menu. The game itself doesn't crash, EXCEPT if I press "launch", which closes the game in addition to popping out that error.

I restarted Windows XP, but that didn't help. A friend of mine told me he has this same problem...
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Postby scottie » Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:44 pm

Something I would looove to have is a motor toggle button for joysticks as well. I played with a game pad and it's a pain to push the throttle all the time. Btw, multiplayer rules:)
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Postby Raccoonbeast » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:09 pm

Few bugs more. :)

Game crashes often, when you push the Windows-button, and try to go back. It can be annoying, if for example firewall gets you back to Windows.

Sometimes, when you land, your plane doesn't get on runway, but it stays in air about half meter from land. But it doesn't cause anything, just cosmethic.

And does TT2 have some problems with greater resolutions, because with my friend, screen goes black, when he runs TT2 with greatest resolution? But, it can be problem of my friend, because he has old graphic card, it messes up sometimes. But new games still works with the card in low-detail.

And when I play third mission of German carrier, it throws me sometimes to Windows, and then comes the error (see up), that's annoying.. :frown:

Again something to think. ;)
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Postby MacAnkka » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:05 am

Haven't encountered anything too awful, just some minor cosmetic errors. The one thing that I would love in the game would be widescreen support. My laptop has a 1280x800 resolution and 1024x768 resolution looks awful, because it has to stretch it to fit the screen...

Other than that, I've found this game to be quite awesome!
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Postby Raccoonbeast » Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:18 pm

This list has been collected from Suomipelit.com forum: http://suomipelit.com/index.php?c=keskusteluviestit&id=7868&s=1
Here is not all mentioned bugs and suggestions, just them, which I don't remember to be here.



TT 2 should have possibility to change strength of plane.
It should to be possible to change between new/old controlling system.
When you are dead, you should to have possibility to still shoot and drop bombs until you get crashed.
Collision of planes should to be possible.
Even your plane is in 99% condition, it smokes. It's hard to evaluate, is your plane badly broken or not.
It should to be able to shoot infatry men with machinegun.
Sometimes you can't fire your machinegun, even you have bullets.(If you drop all your bombs before shooting with gun at all, then you can't shoot with the gun.) (?)

By the way, we should to remember that this game is great, not just full of bugs and nothing else. We shouldn't blame Dragt of anything. ;)
Congratulations to Dragst and crew getting TT 2 for us! :D
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Postby Sparrowhawk » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:44 pm

I'm not done complaining yet! :razz:

- Once you die, the camera scrolls back to the hangar before you can come back. But, occasionally, this doesn't happen and the screen just jumps to the hangar.

- The hangar guys could be using their brains a wee bit more. If they're already running outside while I land (escorting another plane outside the hangar), they could start taking me in instantly instead of running back to the hangar and coming for me AFTER that.

Once I actually got them to do that. I was landing while the guys were pushing my comrade out of the hangar, and managed to stop just before the guys at the point where they'd let the other plane go, and they picked me up on their way inside.

One other time I almost succeeded in the trick again, but I guess my timing must've been bad because only one of the guys grabbed my plane while the other run away like a moron to visit the hangar doors before joining to help his buddy to push me inside :/ .
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Postby Dragst » Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:44 pm

Raccoonbeast wrote:This list has been collected from Suomipelit.com forum: http://suomipelit.com/index.php?c=keskusteluviestit&id=7868&s=1
Here is not all mentioned bugs and suggestions, just them, which I don't remember to be here.

I have seen that thread. Somebody implied in there that "I like developers who change their game due customer feedback." Well, yeah, sure, but I'm not going to do major rehauls over few "I'd like to see this" reasons. It took us 2-3 years to develop this, and the worst case scenario right now would be to start ass-kissing the community-activists ;)


TT 2 should have possibility to change strength of plane.

Impossible due ladder reasons. The scores wouldn't be comparable anymore, NOW WOULD THEY? Yeah, we could do it so that it would only apply to local pilots, but since the whole multiplayer system will involve the ladder pilots it's not on our immediate "to-do" list.

It should to be possible to change between new/old controlling system.

Why? It's a new game, get over with it. THE OLD MODEL DID NOT WORK PROPERLY ANYMORE as I clearly wrote in the issue/bug thread.

When you are dead, you should to have possibility to still shoot and drop bombs until you get crashed.

It was a bug in the first one; Are you really asking us to replicate an old bug before fixing the current ones? ;)

Collision of planes should to be possible.

Should, but isn't due multiplayer reasons. For purely anti-lamer reasons in multiplayer, all kamikaze/plane-to-plane collision is not implemented.

Even your plane is in 99% condition, it smokes. It's hard to evaluate, is your plane badly broken or not.

Once again, people don't understand it has a different system. The _interval_ of the smoking is the cue in tt2, not amount. If you let out occasional small bursts of smoke, you're around 75%-100% and when you smoke constantly... you're in trouble ;)

ALSO! TT2 does not use the ultra-standard boring hit-points system, and the damage in the first place is more vague than in the chess-like tt1. Every plane has their own armour and damage value. When you are hit, the damage increases and the probability of destruction rises. The closer the damage is to armour, the higher the possibility which is why consecutive hits especially feel very powerful. This is why sometimes even one or two single hits might disable or destroy you. The probability is not very high though so if it feels like it's common... you just suck or had a very poor luck ;)

It should to be able to shoot infatry men with machinegun.

It is. You just can't hit them very well, like in real life! :razz:

Sometimes you can't fire your machinegun, even you have bullets.(If you drop all your bombs before shooting with gun at all, then you can't shoot with the gun.) (?)

Bug. I doubt dropping the bombs has anything to do with replicating the bug.

By the way, we should to remember that this game is great, not just full of bugs and nothing else. We shouldn't blame Dragt of anything. ;)
Congratulations to Dragst and crew getting TT 2 for us! :D

Cheers! :D The public is always generally so un-receptive and uncontent, even if we'd feed them gold nuggets from silver platter ;) Especially here in Finland - where people have bad attitude and never see anything positive in anything - one can easilly forget that positive feedback brings much more constructive feedback than the negative whining about little things. I'm not deluded by the fact that I would think every single person in the world will absolutely just love tt2, but I usually disregard (MOSTLY, mind you) non-constructive feedback. Suomipelit.com is unfortunately a "good" example of a community, which is ultimately impossible to please. No matter what game or thing happens, there are always number of people (and even mostly the same names!) who only bash, dislike, boo's & hiss's and spit on people's work without even a flinch, never getting anything real done themselves. It doesn't matter if it's a really really high-quality AAA-quality title like Bugbear's Flatout 2 or Remedy's Max Payne 1/2/ or Alan Wake, there guys always have a essay of what they DON'T like, and an excuse of not buying great stuff from our own country.

No matter how golden memories people have from past 10 years (yeah, tt1 is already THAT OLD! :D) I genuinely think this game is much more closer to the original vision we had about Triplane. And just so much better. The first actually feels like a toy now, where this feels like a real game. Some people don't seem to figure out it's different game now... The irony being, that most of these very same people are the ones who rant about nobody coming up with anything innovative and new! :D The active gamers unfortunately are not the ones in reality who sit on irc for the whole day, and perhaps legally own approximately 1-2 games (doom3 and/or half-life 1/2, plus 1-2 random block-buster RTS'es), but the ones with broader perspective. Console gamers are much more receptive to new ideas, and are much much more active buying games, since they're much more used to it. Think about that next time you call yourself a gamer ;)

TT2 has some real issues, a couple of them, and we really hope to fix them fast and before we put the Boxed Edition into manifacturing process. Bringing in 10 years old systems and making major changes to game balance/mechanism is not included. If someone doesn't buy the game because just one single friggin' feature isn't handed at him on a gold platter, I genuinely think (s)he wouldn't buy the game either way. This is not made in an usual "random" amateur way, but almost every single decision and feature is thought out. Even those who are not apparently included, which doesn't mean we wouldn't have come up with them, right?

Trust us... this isn't just made based on whim and random emotion, but hard work and strict analytic vision. And of course, try to enjoy the game! We know we do, and it appears there are many others already who do the same ;) See you in the ladder!
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Postby Dragst » Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:55 pm

Oh, after this quasi-long rant I forgot to say. I do follow customer feedback, I really hope the whole team can enchance the game even after the initial release and so on. But right now our utmost work will be about fixing the real bugs like crashing and so (openal for example has turned out to be much less stable system than we expected :( ), and of course the network game. After these are done, we'll see what happens.
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Postby apeisa » Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:53 pm

Dragst wrote:
When you are dead, you should to have possibility to still shoot and drop bombs until you get crashed.

It was a bug in the first one; Are you really asking us to replicate an old bug before fixing the current ones? ;)



I wrote most of my thoughts in that other bugs/issues topic. But this one I must say, that it is good feature, even if you think it is a bug. It makes gaming a lot more fun. But not a critical issue, that is sure.

And please be nice for guys who adore TT1.. after all this is Triplane Turmoil too, and they... well - we - are just fanboys. It's important game for us, and so our excpectations for TT2 can be sometimes too high :)

And yes, positive feedback is nice to get, but I have to disagree with what comes to the constructive side. Negative is usually more constructive, because it shows what things annoys players. Negative feedback is hard to get, because it easily feels personal. And after many years used to developing the game it most probably feels personal.. but don't worry: it's not! I think most players are very happy with TT2, but those little things that so many players whine about are after all very important.

And yes, you are right about suomipelit.com forums, but most (probably all) of those alltimewhiners are about 14-years old kids. What comes to me... well, I don't add any FINBONUS to Finnish games. They are on the same line with every other game. But yeah, it makes me a little proud to see titles like TT2 coming from Finland.

So keep up the good work dragst! After you get rid of those major bugs and get network gaming work I really hope you have time and energy for those little things we are so eager to whine about :D

And one more time: thanks! This much fun I haven't had in a long time with games. :party:
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Postby Dragst » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:14 pm

apeisa wrote:And please be nice for guys who adore TT1.. after all this is Triplane Turmoil too, and they... well - we - are just fanboys. It's important game for us, and so our excpectations for TT2 can be sometimes too high :)

Indeed ;) Of course, I have no "deliberate" intention of crushing everything with a Mighty Hammer of Godhood, but there is a limit for "being nice" when it would require trashing lot of work and thinking ;)

And yes, positive feedback is nice to get, but I have to disagree with what comes to the constructive side. Negative is usually more constructive, because it shows what things annoys players.

Wrong B) I don't say this to piss you off, but I assume you're rather young (<25) if you think negative is better. Since you know, motivating and criticizing is different concept, which - especially younger - people tend to bundle up. I have attended lots of leadership conferences and high-level "team management and leading" stuff and trust me; There is nothing more what the hard-core, succesful leaders weigh more than motivating, which comes ALSO in a form positive feedback. You see, this "everything is fine when nobody says anything" tends to be a Finnish cultural minus ;)

I like to point out, that everybody has opinions, really. Only feedback with analytic basis has value from the strictly constructive point of view, and the rest is always a bit... well, "I think" sector.

Example, every objective bug report which the users had and the few solutions they came up with AND which they actively posted right in here is totally, highly valued since it will help us improve the game and speeds up the process. On the otherhand, brushing the game away in some forum with short "sucks ass tt1 ftw"-style standard internet procedure-whining doesn't move me much. At all, actually. Being able to "decide" what is real feedback, positive OR negative is also an element of being a pro. The same principle is in work in every major AAA-titles developing companies out there. So it's not just me being egoistical ;) I follow the forums and other things more than you might actually imagine, since I check the backlogs of our server every here and then :razz:

Negative feedback is hard to get, because it easily feels personal.
I certainly isn't in Finland ;) I don't remember ever seeing a thread, for example in sp.com where almost every user would only have been positively suprised and writing about good things.

And after many years used to developing the game it most probably feels personal.. but don't worry: it's not! I think most players are very happy with TT2, but those little things that so many players whine about are after all very important.

Heh, thanks, but don't worry; As I wrote earlier, being able to have that "facade" as a developer is the part of being a pro. If somebody doesn't like my game is not on the same par as not liking me, and I'd be very very naive to think that way... which is no proper for an adult ;)

And yes, you are right about suomipelit.com forums, but most (probably all) of those alltimewhiners are about 14-years old kids. What comes to me... well, I don't add any FINBONUS to Finnish games. They are on the same line with every other game. But yeah, it makes me a little proud to see titles like TT2 coming from Finland.

Actually, the most active people seem to be 20 and just a tad bit over. Especially the worst cases ;) Oh by the way, just for the information I am twice as critical towards finnish games than I am others ;) But the fact is that even if someone wouldn't personally like Remedy's or Bugbear's games - for example - the truth is their latest work is really high quality from the market and business point of view. I salute them for that, instead of whining why the games are not 101% my wet dreams :)

So keep up the good work dragst! After you get rid of those major bugs and get network gaming work I really hope you have time and energy for those little things we are so eager to whine about :D

And one more time: thanks! This much fun I haven't had in a long time with games. :party:

Thank you very much! :D It's nice to hear cheering and this exactly is the real deal which motivates everybody to do something those little things :) If you're not there already, we're waiting you at the ladder!
:party:
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Postby Dragst » Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:10 am

Oh, once again. If somebody thinks that me or the team thinks all the feedback givers are miserable whiners who are unable to come up with anything... grow up. That is certainly not the case, but the delusion of your own mind. Or illiteracy ;)

The invert roll - once more - is not hard to do, but doesn't work half as well as in tt1, where the roll is explicit. Since the focus in TT2 is more on the dog fight than what is was about 50% - 50% against bombing in TT1 we decided to enforce the new model. This is the same reason why machine gun is not a weapon against infantry anymore (emphasis on air-to-air combat). By the way, did you know people whined about the invert roll in TT1...? ;) I'd understand the concern if we'd really talk about some totally shitty implementation, but I can assure the whole dev team stands behind this new model and decision. Things must evolve, and if the experience is based on one single concept I doubt it's any real skill.. ;) I'm really sorry to hear, if learning new stuff is worse than sticking to good ol' sound and safe.

Just because I disagree (with analytic and responsible elaboration) doesn't mean I have shitty attitude. That is a childish and egocentric statement against me.

To make your mental state easier, I will now mention, that it might be remotely possible to implement later on the "old model". You can then see for yourself how shitty it is in this one, since my word is obviously not enough ;)




I don't know how officially I must state it; What we do now, is to kill the critical bugs, and do the network gaming. Until then, the little things and cosmetic things HAVE TO WAIT. We have almost 10 people team, where only few person(s) are relevant to the case, and most of us (unfortunately) have day time jobs et cetera outside this business and activity. For the latter you guys can be of a help ;)

FYI, somebody wanted 2:1 split screen. Well, the wide mode didn't work quite right, I hope you guys understand it's not as feasbile as it is in 2d. Imagine what would happen to perspective! :)

Website update is underway, and so is webshop ;) The forth-coming field manual will also include some troubleshooting details and tips, and some a bit more extensive explanations about some (new) systems and/or concepts in TT2.
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Postby apeisa » Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:28 am

Thanks for your detailed answer. What comes to positive/negative feedback, we have to remember that players are not your boss, even if they pay (or not to pay) you money. They are customers, and customers feel they have right (or almost responsibility) to whine.

Yeah, most people who know something about working and get things done understand that whining and crying is not the right way to go.

I'm sure most people will understand new features and aspects of the game, after playing a little more time. Chancing controls to left&right is first thing to do. I first thought that this new controlling sucks, but after I chanced controls I was hooked immediatly. This new way is better. More intuitive. I also love the camera now, after I realised that going up is one important element in the game. I have flewn in real live (Vinka!) and I do know that you see much better if you get lots of height. And height is speed too... so it makes game more tactical. What comes to how camera works one can think it almost like fog of war in RTS-games :D

And what comes to me... well, I'm under 25 :) TT2 is first game in a long time I got interested and I hope that I will be someday playing it with my son (we went to second ultra yesterday, me and my girlfriend are having a boy in february) :D

Thanks again for your detailed answers. You just got my full respect as professional game designer (you got it already, but this goes to customer service side :D)
Last edited by apeisa on Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Raccoonbeast » Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:13 am

I have dropped from your conversation already, but I have to say this, otherwise you might think I am a super-whiner.
Those suggestions from Suomipelit were not my opinions, I just thought, that maybe you should to know about them. I disagree about half of them.
I quess, that people had so much excpetations, because it took quite long to get TT2 ready. People thought TT 2 would be übermegagame (with ten people of course), though it is übermega, at least almost. :)
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Postby Dragst » Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:46 am

Raccoonbeast wrote:I have dropped from your conversation already, but I have to say this, otherwise you might think I am a super-whiner.
Those suggestions from Suomipelit were not my opinions, I just thought, that maybe you should to know about them. I disagree about half of them.

Not at all. I've read that spesific thread from the start, and despite how "super-whiner" I seem to brand people, I don't. I was previously talking in much broader perspective than that one thread and even sp.com B)

I quess, that people had so much excpetations, because it took quite long to get TT2 ready. People thought TT 2 would be übermegagame (with ten people of course), though it is übermega, at least almost. :)

Thats the problem with a sequel, always. I'm sure we can fix and patch it up a bit to raise the status! ;)

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